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The Players

So I was thinking maybe we could start a thread on the fallout of Indy.

Maybe keep a track of the players that lose their jobs, or the teams that lose momentum, etc.

Of course, we can always just use the space to vent.

One rule only. We're not in business here, so it is not a 'go after the problem, not the person' philosophy.

NAMES! Keep it personal.

For a start, there must be some heads rolling at Michellin - Desqualifier, or whatever?

Go ahead, knock yourselves out.


  • just use the space to vent.


    NAMES! Keep it personal.
    The entire management of TOIT for being arrogant f**K Heads !! :spank:
  • The FIA, for not having the will to use it's governing-body power, and therefore allowing a farce like that to occur on the sport's biggest stage. :(
  • Possible reprecussions- Indys contract is up so bye bye USA? Nowhere else in the country is anywhere near that many people going to come out and pay to see F1 in the US and I've got to think that Tony George (asshole) can't be too happy about the prospect of paying the bloated sanctioning fee after this lunacy.

    GPWC? I think this could turn out to be a watershed event where the unity of the group of 8 was tested in something other than the abstract and they held together marvelously for the most part, Stoddart was first rate for the whole sorry mess while Jordan was an absolute scab.
  • Goodbye max
    Goodbye Indy
    Goodbye Michellin.

    Could I get any more personal? This is so sad I am almost laughing.
  • Mad Max of course. :spank:

    Michelin accept blame and take the cost of flying in the Barcalona spec tyres. These tyres have an old compound and the cars would have far less running than the Bridgestone cars; isn't that penalty enough? The show could go on ...

    But No, because the FIA has an alliance with Bridgestone/TOIT and the Michelin company and their teams, stakeholders of F1 for many years, have displayed vulnerability - The Pirahna pool attacks!

    They've bitten themselves on the arse this time.

    That race was a preview of the FIA 2008 season, and Michelin and the manafacturers now will have to break away.

    Unless Max Mosely resigns.
  • It's simple. Michellin full stop. This was a monumental stuff up.

    Don't blame anyone else.

    There should have been a contingency plan in place, but hindsight is wonderful.

    Imagine if it was a one make tyre rule and they found a manufacturing fault with the tyres, then no cars would run.

    Mistakes happen. They need to learn from this.

    In all honesty, the solutions put forward either had some level of risk to the drivers, or would simply turn the race into a parade. Which would be like watching a "World Cup friendly" football game as compared to a knock out game.

    Blaming Ferrari is laughable, apportioning blame to Max has merit, but Michellin, the buck stops there.
  • Hear, hear.
  • Not FIA's Problem
    Not Ferrari's Problem.
    Not Jordan's Problem
    Not Minardi's Problem.
    Not Bridgestone's Problem.
    Not Indianapolis Raceway Problem.

    Perhaps Minardi should ask for all the race tracks to be straightened, because we're only fast in a straight line.


    Most of those teams could have tiptoed through that corner, and probably still have beaten Minardi & Jordan.

    Their behaviour was childish, and unfair to the spectators, and viewers, and should in my opinion be sanctioned.

    The teams that did race, came to the track prepared, and reaped rewards. Justifiably!

    I'm just disppointed that we were off Jordan's pace.
  • Yes, that was truly upsetting.
  • I was in the "blame Michelin" camp, but now more facts are out (the Barcelona tyres not being safe either, the fact that the tyres couldn't even be guaranteed for a single flying lap), the FIA, and their well rewarded lackeys TOIT take the blame.

    Anyone can make an engineering mistake, and this is a competitive sport, the margins are thin. Michelin screwed up, admitted it, and then acted responsibly in the circumstances. So did their teams.

    Todt, the sad soulless waste of flesh, couldn't see beyond the points he'd get (as ever). TOIT was part of the problem, because they didn't want to be part of the solution. Max jumped in to score some points in his battles with the GPWC. And as for Judas-Midland, bunch of opportunist deal breaking scum.

    Fans screwed over, as ever. Stoddart was magnificent, as he usually is. His reward? He got screwed over too.
  • I think we need to get the facts straight. It was a monumental stuff up by Michelin. Normally you take 2 specifications of tyre. A performance one which will be marginal on durability and a harder, prime which should withstand all eventualities but is slower. Michelin took only performance tyres. In short they were gelding the liley!
    Whats with Stoddart siding with Michelin against his own tyre supplier. Putthing a chicane in that corner hands the performace advantage bak to Michelin. Their tyres will be quicker in that traction area.
    Why should the Bridgestones teams accomodate their rival supplier. If Michelin want to race. Ok, but you'll have to restrict your speed through the last corner.
    No one mentions that Michelin would not broke such a performance restriction on their tyres.
  • The tyres have been the biggest issue this year. After Kimi's blowout, the FIA got on their high horse and said Mercedes should have bought him in, and that the stewards would black flag competitors if their tyres were dangerous.

    What a load of fuckwits.. now here's a guy who just had a tyre blow after it being dodgey since about half way through the race. The FIA didn't black flag him, because they know they can't patrol their own "rules".

    But then who gives a flying fuck about the rules... the rules still say theres a maximum of 17 races in a calander year.

    Plain and simple, the tyre rules brought in by the FIA make the sport more dangerous, just ask Kimi, just ask Ralf.

    The bookies would have loved the event though.
  • Michelin and their teams did offer to start behind the Bridgestone cars, or score no points, if the chicane was installed. They were not seeking to turn their balls up into a competitive advantage. The FIA and TOIT seem to have been set on completely humiliating Michelin, and extracting the maximum points advantage. Pure self interest. I bet the fans never entered the equation.

    There's nothing wrong with the tyre rules, Michelin just messed up big time. But these things happen, and the FIA is responsible for ensuring that the show goes on.
  • as has been said before. Michelin made a mistake and deserved a punishment.
  • I know its a Japanese thing. But someone at Bibendum has got to commit Hari-Kari.
    Fining Michelin should be the absolute minimum punishment. They should also have to refund the race promotor his costs. C'mon, Tony George put his balls on the line, and this is what he gets.
    I listened to some US race fans on the radio on Friday. I was seriously impressed with their knowledge of F1. It is conceit of the highest order when you hear the Eurpen media claiming US fans don't understand F1.
    Well you heard it here first folks. F1 needs the US market!
  • "The race director was quite correct to refuse Michelin's application for an extra chicane ... case law is bad law and the repercussions of such a yielding would have been infinite.

    A purist would say that the Michelin teams should have simply instructed their drivers to run at a safe speed ... and that those teams had no business attempting to blackmail the organisers into modifying the circuit to suit their technical difficulties."

    Richard Williams, The Guardian (he is one of the best UK sports writers and author of THE book on Senna).

    He then goes on to blame Max and Bernie for screwing F1.
  • You know what? We should blame Michelin for their mistake but what did FIA do? Component failures have happened before and will continue to happen. It's the duty of a racing organizations deal with them without making a farce of a race. The FIA refused to make any reasonable compromise yesterday, and in doing so, abdicated their responsibility to the sport. Had the FIA allowed a compromise, this wouldn't even have been a minor contraversy. It would have been a small footnote to the 2005 season. Stoddart was so right in his interview with all the "bullshit and fucking" stuff.
  • Geez you Poms are miserable shits. :rolleyes:

    "Don't bend the rules for the sake of the spectacle, make them suffer and ruin the event".
  • Perfectly put P1. The outcome could have been exactly the same and the entire grid could have participated, the crowd and TV (imagine if this would have been on a major network, everyone happy. Remember, "Mr. Safety" was ready to see this go off with as far as he had any inkling of TWO cars.
  • In the UK, ITV has three 'prime time' GPs a year - Canada, US and Brazil. I expected to the network to can the 'race' at any moment and cut to a soap but the F1 crew, in the face of great adversity, produced a fab show. Lots of paddock and fan reaction.

    re: being a miserable Pom. Nooooo, I quite enjoyed it all. I am a stickler for rules though and, no, Bridgestone shouldn't have received that dispensation at Interlagos a couple of years back.

    I'm not quite sure what the correct course of action would've been yesterday. No chicane, for sure. Michelin was adamant it was a chicane or nothing - not the FIA.
  • Wihout the rules it would be chaos. I can think of one particular team owner, no names no pack drill, who would use this change to the rules to suit his agenda.
  • PS, sit tight folks. A lot of dirty washing is going to come out over the next few weeks. The FIA has stated that they offered Michelin a solution that was refused point blank. What was it?
  • I guess the FIA stated it was always allowed to slow down on the strait, and a tyre change is allowed if you can proove the tyre had significant damage
  • This 'rules are rules' arguments are just plain silly. Rules are ignored or broken all the time in racing. If switching to V8's in the name of safety is an accepted and conversely demonstrated potentially systematic tire failure is not, what does that say about the 'rules.'

    It boils down to sitting at a switching station with your hand on the lever and just watching the trains collide. Max's brain has totally fossilized and I'm surprised he can stand upright with feet made of clay. Time to go sit in a deck chair.

    It's no different than say adidas providing cleats which are 1/16th of an inch too long per the regulations to an NFL team and telling them they have to play in bare feet. Technically correct but ludicrous.

    Viges- The networks I was talking about are the 4 American majors and if this had been on one of them the damage, if the goal is to make oodles of money on the race rights, would have set the goal back about 30 years.
  • I'm sorry but I just don't buy this blame Max stuff. Michelin had 5 years of Data off the indy track. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the speedway not diamond grind the track last year. How the **** do you turn up at the track with all the data accrued over the years with a tyre thats unsafe.
    My solution is to make Dupasquierre sit but naked on one of his tyres and kick his ass around the track.
    PS did anyone notice that when the shit was hitting the fan, he sent his junior out to field the press' questions?
  • PS, sit tight folks. A lot of dirty washing is going to come out over the next few weeks. The FIA has stated that they offered Michelin a solution that was refused point blank. What was it?
    I would imagine letting the Michelin runners slow down in turn 13 OR letting the Michelin runners drive through the pitlane every lap.
  • Petrol- Stop being thick, at the point of decision when the facts are what they are with Michelin not guaranteeing the safety of it's tires and 120000 with tickets paid for, the best he can come up with is 'slow down voluntarily?!'

    Did he know he would be speaking to racing drivers? You can't see how that was unrealistic? Build the damn chicane, and disallow the Michelin teams post race after a hearing and deal with the fallout. At minimum bring off the event.

    I'm not interested in whether Michelin was at fault, that is obvious, they could have been punished without alienating anyone and everyone who bothered to pay for entrance or switch on the TV.
  • Geez you Poms are miserable shits. :rolleyes:

    "Don't bend the rules for the sake of the spectacle, make them suffer and ruin the event".

    I blame the FIA and Michelin simple as that. Max has to go. He has fucked up too often. I am sure 100000 spectators would love to kick his ass.
  • I suppose it is obvious enough that with a control tyre none of this would have happened. While apparently TOIT does not want a control tyre they stand for bridgestone who do not want a control tyre supplied by michelin. This incident does damage to michelins credibility in being able to supply a control tyre, regardless of on track success.

    Are we seeing that Michelin have lost the tyre war in a way that was set up by the FIA tyre regulations? I mean when the FIA statement refers to competitors in its statement it is not only talking about the teams but the tyre companies as well. Was this officially-sanctioned tyre company showdown always going to have this, or a similar (maybe fatal) outcome.

  • Some good quotes from the weekend that prove points and show true character:

    From DC.

    I know this is now going to be one of those situations of ‘who should have done, who could have done’, but the reality is that a group of mature adults were not able to come to a resolution that would have allowed us to put on the show that everyone wants to see. We want to go racing. It’s a very bad day for the sport.
    From Jean Todt

    He's asked if he feels it is more important to run the sport under the regulations in force than to put on a show?

    At the end of the day, we want to win races, he replies. It's a big competition. I don't think people think about the show. People think about the best they can ge. You know, I tend to agree. We spend so much money, sometimes it's not necessary for the show, but we spend money for technology, we spend money which could be avoided in many ways, but that's competition.
    As far as I can see the initial blame belongs with Michelin. After that however, everybody involved was looking after their own self-interests rather than looking at the big picture.
    By the time Sunday's race rolled around everyone had sorted their patch and felt comfortable saying (and in most cases rightly so) WE are not responsible, it's not our fault if it all goes pear shaped. And despite that we ended up with the worst possible result for F1.

    The sport is fucked at the moment. Having said that it great fun to watch, just like a train wreck.

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