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Do not Post "Toro" subjects?

Do you think we should all take a stand and not post any subjects to do with the second other italian team? TSOIT.

I don't want to do it to our boys who are still working for them, but there has to be someway we can protest them taking our name away?
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Comments

  • No, I think we have to talk about them! The workers are the same people we have always cheered. They are fighting to prove themselves to new bosses and keep Faenza open.
  • I agree with Manni.

    I am ignoring the Team That Was An Italian Team!

    Forza Ferrari!
  • I don't think that being a childish luddite is going to help the situation. After a while I just got tired of the the kid who wanted to take his ball and go home. so tired I punched him out cause I got tired of his whining and wanting to get his own way. We all wanted our own way and all feel similar feelings with regard to the team. quit whining like a baby and learn how to accept the changes and work within the confines of the currrent situation. They guys at teh TEAM are the guys we always supported. It's a name change for god's sake. grow the f*** up. sissy
  • Bernie: Don't tell me all the trouble that some on this forum have been through was wasted time, because it's just a name change. Minardi is more than a name. I see the current team not as a natural follow up of the old team.
    Giving TSR another name like we did/do with TOIT is childish yes. But there is nothing wrong in my opninion to be a bit childish now and then, as long as we know that we are being childish.
  • They guys at teh TEAM are the guys we always supported.
    Not all of the guys will be. They'll make changes.
    It's a name change for god's sake.
    Its more than just a name change. Its ending an era.
  • the moral dilemma is: let's say the us gets invaded by canada and they call it les sud d'états du Canada or something like that (excuse my non existant French but you get my point) making it inherently subordinate territory to the real state of Canada, replacing its leaders with Canadians, would you still be a patriotic American??

    the lakes of minnesota and the hills of tennessee are still the same, you've got mount rushmore and the alamo but the statue of liberty has been replaced by an oversized mountie and the Holywood sign now reads bois de houx. would it still be the same country?

    I, in all fairness tend to think that we shouldn't bend over that easily. full respect to the guys who still work there but as it seems now, there will be very little "Minardi" left in Faenza
  • I'm with Simon and Bernard..............and Mr. Minardi.........and the people at Faenza that we met when visiting the Minardi factory this past April. If the people who are directly affected with this change of ownership see the plusses outnumbering the minuses, then that tells me one thing....if the opposite is true, that tells me something different.
    At this time, Mr. Minardi has been quoted that he sees the plusses overwhelming the negatives......and that is good enough for me............ granted, this can all change very quickly........ but until it does, I will follow and support the team from Faenza.........
  • RJ, they would call it "Les provinces du sud du Canada", in Canada there are provinces, not states.:hehe::hehe:

    As for my opinion concerning the Minardi-STR querelle, yes, I agree that it is no more the same team, but something totally different.
    And an era is ended in F1 (due to the disappearing at the same time of the names Minardi, Jordan and Sauber, plus BAR will not last long), and it makes me cry, because it's like the F1 of my boyhood that ends.

    But then again, would Minardi have been the same thing if the kept the name. The answer is, again, no. If you think about the last 10 years of F1, everyone buying out a team changed the name, except fot Walkinshaw (too much of a gentleman) and Stoddie (because he did not want to give up the FIA money that would have been lost had the name being changed.

    History is history, and as it could not be stopped by Alexander the great, Julius Caesar and Napoleon, it could not be stopped by Scuderia Minardi Faenza.

    It is painful, but that's the way it is.
    So, I deem I'll always remember Minardi as the incarnation of true sporting spirit, and I'll always have a soft spot for it as a symbol of MY F1, but I'll have no rancour against Toro Rosso.

    Remember that, now that Ferrari is FIAT, McLaren is Mercedes, BAR and (whether now or in 2007) Aguri are Honda, and Toyota, BMW, Renault spend their name directly, Red-Bull-Toro Rosso is just holding our beloved flag of the privateers, even though today a privateer can no more do it with a few dollars, but needs as well a substantious backing.

    Williams made a very brave choice in refusing BMW offer. Still, are you sure there will be a team named Williams in 2010? I wouldn't bet on it.

    So, my suggestion is to be just neutral with regard to Toro Rosso, always remembering that until their factory is in Faenza and many of the boys speak the Romagna dialect, Minardi's heart will still beat in it.
  • So, my suggestion is to be just neutral with regard to Toro Rosso, always remembering that until their factory is in Faenza and many of the boys speak the Romagna dialect, Minardi's heart will still beat in it.
    I could not have said it better myself.
  • Hear, hear.

    PS Neil, if you have nothing new to say it is time you went. Why can't you support the great people at Faenza?
  • bravo manlio, for once :hehe:
  • quite some ex-minardi mechanics work at Toyota now... have you expressed your support for Toyota? utmost respect for them but it's not the same.

    Guys, according to media reports, what will be rolling out of Faenza will be an old red bull racing chassis, not very Minardi, is it. they don't even consider developing the car that the boys have spent so much time on this year and which surely (especially the rear bit) has some potential. i can't believe that the fighting spirit in here is so low! the only one willing to make some noise seems to be comrade neil.
  • bravo manlio, for once :hehe:
    Well said Manilio
    PS Neil, if you have nothing new to say it is time you went. Why can't you support the great people at Faenza?
    Neil it really is time to say goodbye!

    On the subject I had a visit to Faenza Friday last. Believe me when I say the overwhelming majority of the guys there are happy whit the takeover. The oportunity of Job security is something theyare looking forward to (even if it is secure for 3 years) They look forward to the challange to prove themselves with a larger budget and better equiptment. Only drawback is the use of the '05 RB chassis next year. The guys are hoping for our continued support.
  • quite some ex-minardi mechanics work at Toyota now... have you expressed your support for Toyota? utmost respect for them but it's not the same.
    Very good point....at first the "heads" get chopped of in takeovers...this already happend (Mister Tost in charge soon).

    They can't change the mechanics and rest of the staff overnight...but I fear they will over time.. I still fear everything changes in 2008 once the rules are revised...and Minardi - or better what's left of it in 2008 :-( - transplanted to England to Red Bull 1.

    I considered giving up on F1 as a consequence in 2006...now at least there's Super Aguri. Mr. Aguri stated Super Aguri won't be a Honda B team...if action follow words, I consider supporting Super Aguri in 2006 - at least one new privateer team.

    Damn, at least Football fans can start their own club once everything goes down the toilet we can't....after the purchase of Man United, started by disgruntled supporters in 2005. Good story here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_United_of_Manchester

    They apparently have an average crowd of over 2500 people per game !

    Oh wait, my Saudi relative just found a new oil field and is willing to spend $ 100 million a year on a new Italian F1 team :) .... * wakes up *..wait ...I have no Saudi relative.

    [Edited on 2/11/2005 by bladerunner]
  • Come on RJ - al Comrade Neil is doing is pissing and moaning - nothing constructive! Look this is one crappy situation. Out Team has been takenb away but F1 will continue on the lesser for it. We have in the past and i hope to in the future discuss any and all aspects of F1 with a mindful eye on where it was we all came from.
  • Very good point....at first the "heads" get chopped of in takeovers...this already happend (Mister Tost in charge soon).
    good point, bladerunner. do remember what happened to Tyrrell when BAR took over and what they did to poor old Ken.

    to come back to the original topic: of course you may post about SQTR here, free country, innit?
  • On the subject I had a visit to Faenza Friday last. Believe me when I say the overwhelming majority of the guys there are happy whit the takeover.
    You see, PS did the right thing ;)
  • I considered giving up on F1 as a consequence in 2006...now at least there's Super Aguri. Mr. Aguri stated Super Aguri won't be a Honda B team...if action follow words, I consider supporting Super Aguri in 2006 - at least one new privateer team.
    i think i might support them too (Minardi will always be my number 1) I'd really like Aguri to show up BAR and for Sato and whoever else drives for them to beat Button along with rubens.
  • I think the point is that having decided to continue the site sans-Minardi (there, that's my French contribution), RJ (and those who remain) have crossed the Rubicon in terms of team support.

    Whilst the site may take on some sort of 'tribute' status as far as Minardi is concerned, it must become much more eclectic if it is to survive long term. I don't know if anyone watched the sad way that 'All About Arrows' petered out, but it wasn't pretty.

    STR (as they will inevitably be known) will and must be talked about. What is exciting is that other flags will come out of the closet (some already declared - you are sad, hack), and the discussions to become more wide-ranging in terms of what is happenning in the world of Formula One.

    I personally plan to be a complete shit-stirrer, reminding everyone of Stoddart's crusade every time things turn to custard.

    Talk about STR? WGAF.

  • If she stays, I go.
  • I can't understand how some people can be so angry about the teams name being changed. As with anything, if you purchase a business or an item, it's yours to do as you wish with it.

    For the boys at the factory, nothing has changed other than the sign on the door. If anything, the finally have the job security they have always longed for, and the chance to prove their worth and maybe, just maybe move up in the ranks to Ferrari..? (i'm sure alot of them dream of doing so)

    I still maintain, should be stop supporting them like alot of us seem to be doing, then we're showing our true colours. We were never supporting Minardi the people, we were merely supporting the name, and this 'image' of being an underdog.

    I have news for some of you - Toro Rosso are still the underdogs! They're a b-spec team owned by a fizzy drink label, not a manufacturer! The car might look different, and the name might have changed, but the team is still in Faenza, the workers are still there, and they still possess the same spirit and will to win that they did when the car was black and the name started with M.

    Forza Minardi, Forza Toro Rosso!
  • I didn't know about ex-Minardi mechanics at Toyota!!!:o

    And I thought it isn't allowed to run another team's old car?? (RBR01)
  • This split between the purists and the pragmatists is interesting. We all opposed the name change, but now some are willing to accept the reality and others are not.

    I am not.

    Of course, I am in touch with the fact that when RB purchased the team, it also bought the rights to name it. Whether we like it or not, they do have the right to decide what to call the team.

    Also, I sincerely am glad if this piece of news means that the mechanics at Minardi have job security at least until 2008. They deserve it. I am also happy if they have the spirit to carry on working for their new employer with the same attitude they have had in the past.

    So what is the problem?

    Quite simply, being a fan is, in my view, about passion. Your reason may cause you to like something, but if your heart is not in it, you cannot be a true fan. While it's important that the financial state of the team improved with the Red Bull deal and the workers kept their jobs, these facts only appeal to reason.

    Everything that was related to passion; the independent underdog, always surviving somehow, the legacy of the Minardi name, personalities such as Mr. Minardi and Paul Stoddart... These are all gone, replaced by a flawless, calculated marketing of a drink company. The company that promised "rock 'n roll attitude" and gave us David Coulthard with a stubble.

    I'm sorry. I like the car I drive, I like the newspapers I read and I like the sodas I drink. However, I cannot feel any passion about them. In a similar way, the passion that was Minardi has now been reduced to a commodity that is a bad-tasting drink in a can. Show me a person who can get excited about the success of a drink company and I'll show you a lunatic.
  • very well said, now get behind me, Driver, while we stare down the surrenderers :hehe::hehe::hehe:
  • Loyalty or Reality?

    Is that the only choice or can we have both!

    With any takeover, there will be loyal supporters,employees, stakeholders, etc who are initially upset.

    It is quite usual, as in the case of the new owners, to give a period for people to adjust and decide if they want to stay or not.

    FM fans are in that situation.

    I say, keep our minds open and see if the change produces benfits for most.

    Minardi had been suffering underfunding for many years, which at times stretched the team beyond reasonable limits.
    There was insecurity, and the consequences of perennial short term measures. You can't blame the team for being happy to have a more secure future from the takeover.

    If the new arrangement is bad, then no-one should be surprised if we quit en-masse.

    In the meantime, we're free to debate, criticise, hope, recommend, and be heard. I wouldn't expect many answers from Toro Rosso till they see whether the supporters are with them or against them.

    It is "wait and see", isn't it?


    I wonder if Paul secured a significant "goodwill" payment for including us in the Minardi package. What do you think we're worth? :)

    Spin
  • Let me explain my previous comments in mor detail. If someone continues to harp on the same old thing about how bad the changes are and how bad it suck and how he's going to leave I get tired of hearign about it. It is not constructive. the decision h as been made and now you can either live with it or gripe about it. either way is cool but if, like neil, you just sit there adn say how bad it sucks and tht you're going to be a toit fan, then get the f*** out and don't let the door hit you in the ass. My comments where directed at Neil and all of his repetitive childish posts.

    I am glad this has stimilated some discussion. Many of these things need to be vented and talked about. I'm in total agreement with Murph.
  • "let's say the us gets invaded by canada and they call it les sud d'états du Canada or something like that (excuse my non existant French but you get my point) making it inherently subordinate territory to the real state of Canada, replacing its leaders with Canadians, would you still be a patriotic American?? "

    well, first off it is more likely that the Newfie's in Canada will figure out a way to jackhammer out the province of Quebec adn float it out into tht Atalantic than the possibility of Canada invading the US. If quebec didn't owe all the other provinces so much damn money they might nt get away with all the crap they already do...

    but, that was not your point. if, given your scenerio the french canucks invaded the US and took over and renamed the place would I still be a loyal american? well, yea, I suppose I would. I would have my same neighbors and same everything else with the exception that there was new set of stupid rules to live by: liberal instead of neo-con's. we would be ruled by a country that recently approved legislation to permit more strippers entry visa's because there was a dramiti need to fill the job vacanicies in Canada... in some way you gotta admire that kind of thinking...

    I think the new ownership will bring thier own fresh new ideas some of which will be good and some bad based upon each of our own subjective opinions. let's figure out how we move forward, pick up the pieces and support the team memeber we always have.
  • Hi Bernie,
    I do not know what you know about Quebec, but as an Anglophone who was born ,raised and living in Quebec, this place is damn good, and damn good all by its self.
    Sorry, but I cannot let this pass.
    Phil
  • [quote]On the subject I had a visit to Faenza Friday last. Believe me when I say the overwhelming majority of the guys there are happy whit the takeover.
    You see, PS did the right thing ;)
    [/quote]

    But (I know PS is outspoken, but still...) I don't get this quote from Nov, 1 from PS when he was asked about the Minardi sale:

    "It's a very sad day and I really wish there was another solution."

    Other reports even quote this as " I wish there was a better solution"...

    What is he talking about ? Keeping Minardi if he had more time / money ? Selling to someone who kept the name ?

    Also, I guess we will have to ask the mechanics and the rest of the team members in about 6/12 months if things are still ok for them...it's hard to tell before in my view.
  • Pragmatism comes with age. There is no way I can be passionate about STR but I can back, passionately, the people at Faenza.
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