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What I'm trying to get at here is 'the money issue' of keeping the name Minardi.
Some say Stoddie kept the name 'because he had to' but then you look at the teams quoted which changed names almost immediately. Did they forfeit any money by changing the entry? I've never heard of it.
Therefore, on a related issue, in what way is Minardi 2001-05 any more 'true' than Toleman/Benetton/Renault, Stewart/Jag, etc.? It was another franchise and STR is another.
I'm not doubting Minardi is a special team (who could?) but are we simply saying that by Stoddie keeping the name, giving GCM a desk and then ignoring him that the team was 'more Minardi' than it is now? I'm not so sure it was.
To my original point, the purist could argue the 'Minardi era' was truly 85-93.
I agree with your assertion Viges that the maximum Minardi era was 85 - 93. However, the fact that one man - THE MAN - had such a lasting effect and influence on the employees, investors etc etc really made the team HIS. I thnik that is the reason for the shunnning of everything "Minardi" by STR. They HAD to make the separation from him for their own purposes. I don't like it but can understand it from a business perspective.
I for one am 'appy with the fact that, as 'ghost pointed out so eloquently, that we live to fight on another day. I also like the fact that GCM is open to making a move up into GP2.
In my estimation I think we need one more year in F3000 and taking that championship either this year AND next year before making the jump. Solidifying the Team over this time period would make the transition to GP2 more attractive to sponsors as well as providing the time for training and gaining the experience required for success at the next level.
Emmett, have you offered your services to GCM? Are you open to a career change and move to Italy? I'm sure they could adapt your technical expertise into the team somehow?
At least Stoddart was true to the the minardi ethos of employing innovation and elan to the problem of being competitive. STR use of the second hand Jaguar chassis would seem to fly in the face of that. The subservient position to the tacky red bull team also galls. And for all the promised money there has been no advancement. Minardi was always a cut above than the newby teams and strugglers (except when there weren't any); they would have beaten Aguri and MF with the PS06. ah well...
Yes, likewise I am no fan of the STR project yet I think there are those at Faenza who would challenge the idea that 2001-05 was an era of innovation. They had to use the same chassis for three seasons + a few races in 2005.
What Paul did was keep the name alive and that was very important but the longer they stumbled on it became inevitable the next buyer would change the name.
Does anyone know the answer to why Stoddie kept the name?
Petrol (I think) once suggested certain Bernie payments depended on it but I have not seen this anywhere. Is it because the Minardi entry for 2001 had already been lodged?
if stoddie wants to start a us based team called minardi the cost of challenging that would be too huge to be worthwhile. i think gcm's assertion that he owns the name was aimed at consolidating GP Racing's position that their investment into the minardi franchise is safe and that any future minardi teams will only happen if gcm says so.
this is not official yet and still an application filed in Italy on the second of feb. there is no trade mark registered in the us, apart from the expired one (the one used in this site's logo hehe). there is the "madrid convention" which regulates such things internationally, don't know the exact text but there are conventions which regulate this for europe (once you register a brand in one country it becomes a registered trade mark in the other one as well, as we can see from the above example)
The application was done Feb this year with the address of the Minardi (now STR) factory with a secondary address in Bologna. I guess GCM is expecting to take up space in the factory soon!
that is what puzzles me as well. I'm pretty sure STR have no intention of moving house. and i don't think gcm has the cash to buy it back so why give a wrong address?
Viges perhaps next time you talk to stoddy you can find out where the PS05 reside? Could they be converted to V8 and if the F1 political climate were right would Stoddart be planning to use these to re-enter F1?
Perhaps another stoddart/faenza/gcm team up is possible once STR are out of the building...
"I'm pretty sure STR have no intention of moving house."
RJ, I reckon STR will move to the UK in '08 when the chassis rules and so forth change. Co-location with RBR would make fiscal sense from the point of view that RBR and STR will be housed within the same facility complex.
"I guess GCM is expecting to take up space in the factory soon!"
Quig, read the response to RJ above, and this is the time that I believe that GCM will move the Minardi team back to Faenza. Possibly coinciding with a jump up to GP2. Let's hope so anyway.
james, not to go off topic but do you think I could get my hands on the sidepods? I'm finishing my basement and trying to collect F1 memorabelia.... I could find a place for those sidepods I'm sure.;););););)....or maybe just a couple pieces collecting dust...I mean, c'mon they're just sitting there and all!
isnt he in charge of the two seater program? Do they have that kind of stuff? I though GCM got it all. Are you serious?!?! all anyone can say is no I suppose. Are you serious?!?! don't be gettin me excited like that....
but, while we're at it, any old "stuff" layin around at Williams that you guys don't need, maybe an old side pod signed by sir frank? or any of the other folks who might have left stuff collecting dust in a corner. you know, I heard the that Regazzoni was messy...even stuff from Prost, Keke, Mansell and, heck, I'll even take any of the old Senna stuff if no one wants it. Perhaps an old rugby football signed by Frank. (BTW, do the Scot's play rugby in kilts?)
you just let me know when you get a moment. You can always count on me to help a friend clean up there place of old stuff! :D:D:D
Comments
Some say Stoddie kept the name 'because he had to' but then you look at the teams quoted which changed names almost immediately. Did they forfeit any money by changing the entry? I've never heard of it.
Therefore, on a related issue, in what way is Minardi 2001-05 any more 'true' than Toleman/Benetton/Renault, Stewart/Jag, etc.? It was another franchise and STR is another.
I'm not doubting Minardi is a special team (who could?) but are we simply saying that by Stoddie keeping the name, giving GCM a desk and then ignoring him that the team was 'more Minardi' than it is now? I'm not so sure it was.
To my original point, the purist could argue the 'Minardi era' was truly 85-93.
GCM has lots of co-owners and colleagues even between 85 and 93. Chiti had a say, Caliri had a say etc
I for one am 'appy with the fact that, as 'ghost pointed out so eloquently, that we live to fight on another day. I also like the fact that GCM is open to making a move up into GP2.
In my estimation I think we need one more year in F3000 and taking that championship either this year AND next year before making the jump. Solidifying the Team over this time period would make the transition to GP2 more attractive to sponsors as well as providing the time for training and gaining the experience required for success at the next level.
Formula Renault
In Italian
:)
What Paul did was keep the name alive and that was very important but the longer they stumbled on it became inevitable the next buyer would change the name.
Petrol (I think) once suggested certain Bernie payments depended on it but I have not seen this anywhere. Is it because the Minardi entry for 2001 had already been lodged?
UK Trademark Office
this is not official yet and still an application filed in Italy on the second of feb. there is no trade mark registered in the us, apart from the expired one (the one used in this site's logo hehe). there is the "madrid convention" which regulates such things internationally, don't know the exact text but there are conventions which regulate this for europe (once you register a brand in one country it becomes a registered trade mark in the other one as well, as we can see from the above example)
I do not remember the date GCM walked out the door of 21 via Spallanzani but if it was post Feb 3 then there might be part of our answer.
What I wonder is if this goes for any Minardi racing team, or just the F3000 Minardi team.
It's just that I question the bit.
Perhaps another stoddart/faenza/gcm team up is possible once STR are out of the building...
RJ, I reckon STR will move to the UK in '08 when the chassis rules and so forth change. Co-location with RBR would make fiscal sense from the point of view that RBR and STR will be housed within the same facility complex.
"I guess GCM is expecting to take up space in the factory soon!"
Quig, read the response to RJ above, and this is the time that I believe that GCM will move the Minardi team back to Faenza. Possibly coinciding with a jump up to GP2. Let's hope so anyway.
have you emailed graham jones? he can probably help you....
but, while we're at it, any old "stuff" layin around at Williams that you guys don't need, maybe an old side pod signed by sir frank? or any of the other folks who might have left stuff collecting dust in a corner. you know, I heard the that Regazzoni was messy...even stuff from Prost, Keke, Mansell and, heck, I'll even take any of the old Senna stuff if no one wants it. Perhaps an old rugby football signed by Frank. (BTW, do the Scot's play rugby in kilts?)
you just let me know when you get a moment. You can always count on me to help a friend clean up there place of old stuff! :D:D:D
[Edited on 30-8-06 by bernie]