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Red Bull reply -- see front page

please read a translation of the letter on the front page and comment here.

i for one, am lost for words :(:(:(


  • Could you send me the original German letter?


    I'm lost for words too. That's........ :(
  • They are a passionate bunch. Did they send any product - I have a bottle of vodka to mix it with.

    The best part is that it took 2 people to write that!

    [Edited on 9/11/2005 by MCSF]
  • (i thought the translation was quite good nevertheless)

    sehr geehrter herr bartunek

    wir freuen uns sehr ueber ihre begeisterung fuer das vormalige minardi team. gleichzeitig moechten wir uns fuer den in ihrem schreiben entgegen gebrachten vertrauensvorschuss bedanken.

    wie sie wahrscheinlich bereits aus den medien entnommen haben, wurde der name minardi in squadra toro rosso (uebersetzt team red bull) umgewandelt. diese entscheidung basierte keineswegs aus (yup, that's what it says) unueberlegten gruenden, ganz im gegenteil, denn fuer eine marketing getriebene firma wie red bull ist allen voran die "brand exposure" also der deutlich erkennbare markenname in der oeffentlichkeit, ein unverzichtbares marketinginstrument zur internationalen positionierung der marke red bull. speziell im hinblick auf diese gruende kann die intention der namensaenderung einer ubernommenen firma nicht als abwegig betrachtet werden.

    unanbhaengig vom namen des teams sind wir jedoch ausserordentlich bemueht, die langjaehrige tradition dieses rennstalles zu achten und fortzufuehren, nicht nur im sinne aller beteiligten sonder vor allem der fans. auch wenn man rennstaelle kaufen kann, sind wir uns sehr wohl bewusst, dass dies nicht auf deren fans zu trifft (that's also a sic) Umso mehr wuerden wir uns ueber eine weiterhin zahlreiche fangemeinschaft freuen, die sich mit unserer dynamischen, ambitionierten marke indentifizieren kann, denn die neue rennsaison wird spannend werden, und nur mit vereinten kraeften koennen wir squadra toro rosso fluegel verleihen.

    in diesem sinne hoffen wir auf eine weiterhin gute zusammenarbeit, die von viel spass, spannung, action und erfolg gepraegt sein soll.

    mit besten gruessen aus salzburg

    kathrin wlzek i.a. dany bahar
  • I'm also interested in the original.

    I find a typical PR-response, with the kind of political twisting and language I hate. It's also what you could expect.
  • i just typed the original up there ^
  • Your translation is even better than the original, it has much lesser mistakes....

  • Thanks for the original (I was a bit slow typing my own post :D)

    I especially like
    gleichzeitig moechten wir uns fuer den in ihrem schreiben entgegen gebrachten vertrauensvorschuss bedanken
  • Thanks, same feeling here...PR droid talk.

    Ok, I only had a few semesters of marketing at the university, but sitll let me try to explain why this doesn't even make sense to me from a rational, sales attitude (Red Bull's point of view) in my opinion :

    1) No one I spoke to - F1 fan or not - associates "Toro Rosso" with Red Bull (cans)...NO ONE, not even people who speak Italian fluently...so the "marketing exposure" is NIL....or rather below NIL (negative), because it "dilutes" the strong brand name if they mix "Toro Rosso" with the image of the bulls.
    As much as I hated "Red Bull Rookies" or Red Bull Juniors", it would have at least had one purpose for Red Bull : Sell more of their cans worldwide as a result...

    2) Unless Red Bull ...

    2a) Red Bull repackages their drink to Toro Rosso in Italy in 2006

    2b) Red Bull announces a new drink called Toro Rosso in 2006 (in Italy ?)

    I doubt 2a) or 2b) will happen, therefore 1) continues to apply.

    They have a global marketing and CI scheme, so the packaging and name are the same worldwide and "Toro Rosso" will confuse both casual F1 fans and people in general...

    3) So to the conclusion of 1) and 2): Red Bull destroyed the Minardi heritage and they don't even get marketing exposure in turn...great.

    So, it's a loose-loose situation, both for Red Bull drink sales and the Minardi fans. Way to go, Red Bull !

    Let me know if I'm wrong with the 1) - 3) above, but it really doesn't make to sense to me at all...

    It's either Super Aguri or no more F1 for me in 2006 (once again, all the best to all the mechanics and CGM...).

    Sad :(

    [Edited on 9/11/2005 by bladerunner]
  • Sorry, double post...anger leads to hate, hate leads to frustration...frustration leads to too many mouse clicks :)

    [Edited on 9/11/2005 by bladerunner]
  • Also, just went to the Red Bull site and found this:

    What a f*cking stupid logo...the Toro is crossed through ???? They mix the Red Bull image brand with a new name...


    Source and article ...seems to be new (?):


    Last lines quote:

    All the current news about the Squadra can be found for now here at redbull.com. Before the end of the year it should also be available at www.squadratororosso.it.

    :( :( :(
  • I think we should reply that you have alienated us so there will be no continued support for the team apart from the original faenza emplyees.

    And we will not bloody 'give the team wings'

    What bollocks PR speak!!!1
  • I prefer chicken wings anyway
  • At least they replied........still don't agree but they, in some small part, have acknowledged our strength in numbers.

    We should use our strength to try and change their name regardless of how long it takes.

    Battle against the marketing machine that runs our little Faenza team. Think David and Goliath.
  • we would be pleased to see continued support from the numerous fan communities,
    Really! Wow they want us!!
    This changes everything. Quick RJ re-register the site as ForzaToroRosso.com as soon as possible!!

    What do you mean the domain is already taken?
    What fucking asshole did that?
  • They might give it back.

    But it will probably take months.
    It took them three weeks to reply to a 4 pound letter. What did they do? Check all signatures by hand?
  • Disappointing, but expected.

    Let's not worry about the Load of Bull management. But I will still support the team in Faenza.

    On the basis that GCM is still involved, I would like to suggest that we send GCM a request to provide us a short column after each race weekend focused on the Faenza team.

    This can just be a short one-pager on how the team went, race analysis, the normal stuff. The bonus is that the newsletter can be called "Minardi's View"

  • Perhaps we're looking at this with too much of a negative viewpoint.

    Firstly, the name. Yes, we're all upset that 'Minardi' is gone, replaced by what we think is a diluted marketing spin with 'Toro Rosso'. However, Red Bull own many well known programs that do not reflect the Red Bull brand name - Hangar 7 for instance. Over time, Red Bull plan to use their marketing spin to clearly define Toro Rosso as the underdog team for upstart drivers, and differentiate the team from Red Bull Racing – hence not carrying over the Red Bull name.

    I'm encouraged by Red Bull's acknowledgement of the supporters based at this website. Perhaps if rather than approaching the team bluntly, stating “we are Minardi fans and that’s all there is to it” we can build a relationship between the team and us – potentially their first supporters. Priding themselves on their edgy marketing, you could find Red Bull accepts us with open arms, and creates new opportunities for us to interact with the team, drivers, etc in social gatherings, fan club meetings, etc.

    Red Bull has taken notice of ForzaMinardi.com. They realise that we are a close knit (figuratively of course) bunch of passionate supporters, who wear our hearts on our sleeve when it comes to supporting our team. This website is kind of like the epicenter of our support. RJ’s empire consists of hundreds of frequently visiting, loyal members from all over the world. Heck, you even support a home made racing car from down under! :P

    I just can’t help but think maybe if we approach Red Bull together, willing to accept the change, perhaps they will open their arms to us? Whether it’s having the team join us at fan club events, merchandise discounts, chipping in towards paying for ForzaMinardi.com (Forzatororosso.com?), sponsoring our race team (lol) or perhaps listening to us when we ask for some sort of link to Minardi’s past, and colour the car dark blue and yellow. (highly likely considering what the RBR cars look like.)

    Just a thought guys.

    [Edited on 10/11/2005 by Brooksey]
  • Whats with the lovefest Brookes?

    You just drop an E ?
  • I don't know. I had a try of their pixie drink at work last night. Tastes about as nice as piss and vinegar. Perhaps it was spiked?
  • Lets be frank, that letter is a blow off.

    The writer's probably wouldn't know a F1 car if it stuck them up the bum.

    Not to mention that it's piss poor marketing idea.

    I vote we generate a host of sword logo's sticking it to the red cow.
  • no comments
  • This suck arse,

    I only took one marketing subject at university so correct me if im wrong, Redbull dominate the Eurpean market including Italy, right and italian isnt spoken outside of italy so whats the point. If you wanted to use the team for marketing purposes why not redbull gives minardi wings. (thants if the team is more competitive) If the name change is purely for marketing purpose why not the chinese name for red bull, at least that would be smart.
    Anyway thanks for letting me vent my opnion.
  • "The team you supported gone it is. Consumed by Red Bull."

    Original quote (by Yoda from Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith): "The boy you trained gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader".

    We all saw at the Monaco GP this year that Red Bull was powered by the dark side. But I never thought that my favorit team would turn to the dark side.
    Actually I can see alot of similarities between Anakins fall to the dark side and Minardis fall to Red Bull :o :hehe:
  • I don't think I've ever read a worse case of sacharin sick marketing 'bull'. :spank:

  • Very disapointing reply, just about a standard letter with little actual content
  • Did they send any product - I have a bottle of vodka to mix it with.
    went out the other night and the only offer on was red bull vodka so people kept buying it and giving it to me. luckily the tin of red bull was separate so (more than once) i thew the tin away (for everyone to see) and was on plain vodka all night (which is quite disgusting) but I'd rather not drink anything than consuming one more tin of red bull :mad::mad::mad:

    Brooksey, I will never bend over to those people, even if they declared me their press manager and gave me pit lane access to every single GP.

    [Edited on 10/11/2005 by forzaminardi]
  • Brooksey, I will never bend over to those people, even if they declared me their press manager and gave me pit lane access to every single GP.
    Mmmm.... easy to say now ;) And when the offer includes the occasional pitbabe? :hehe:
  • Fair enough RJ.

    If that is the case, how good are your links with X-Drink? Have you considered endorsing X-Drinks on ForzaMinardi.com, in defiance to Red Bull taking over our team? A few X-Drink banners on top of the page here and there wouldn’t hurt (in exchange for some free cans for yourself!) I’m sure Red Bull wouldn’t be too happy about that!
  • please read a translation of the letter on the front page and comment here.

    i for one, am lost for words :(:(:(
    What's the surprise????
    They announced the new name weeks ago !!!!!!

    Did you really think they would listen to some fan community?
    What would you do if you were a billionaire CEO ???:rolleyes:

    Re. the comments on why Toro Rosso instead ofd Red Bull:
    hasn't it crossed your minds that maybe Bernie doesn't like to have 2 teams on the grid with the same name??????
  • Have you noticed the letter is signed by Kathrin Wlzek i.A. Dany Bahar

    According to various websites Dany Bahar is Mateschitz' right hand man.
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